The Warfare of the Spirit

I really enjoyed getting together with everyone this afternoon! Please let me know if you have any ideas for next month. I'd also like your feedback on our meeting today.

We'll be getting together on March 11 after church to discuss chapters 4 thru 8. Linda Kratzer has some activities planned "with an Irish flair". We'll be sharing a meal--bring some GREEN food to share!

Now, on to the chapter. I have questions for you, and I'll be answering my own questions later on this week. For now, I'd like to hear your answers...

Chapter 4 – Are We Evangelicals Social Climbing?

This editorial was first published in June 1957

Are we less dependent on God than people in third world countries?

Do unsaved Americans have problems with salvation because they feel they don’t need God?

Have Evangelicals as a group compromised our beliefs to become more palatable to the world? How about we as a church?

This chapter brought the following parable to my mind... Luke 18:9-14

⁹And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:
¹⁰"Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
¹¹"The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
¹²'I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.'
¹³"But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!'
¹⁴"I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

I'm eager to hear your thoughts. Use the "Reply All" button to send your thoughts to everyone in the group.

Have a great week!

In Christ, Lisa

Chapter 4 - Are We Evangelicals Social Climbing?

Not all evangelicals, but certainly many are social climbing. It is demonstrated a little by the fact of bigger houses, more expensive cars,clothing with all the current cultural styles, etc.. It is not longer what is needed to be content as scripture so aptly states in I Timothy 6:8 " And having food and raiment let us therewith be content". Instead we just want what is needed to increase our social standing and acceptance in our culture.

Are we less dependent on God than people in third world countries?

yes, unfortunately we are similar to the Laodicean church in Revelation 3:17 " I am rich and increased with goods, and have need of nothing."

Do unsaved Americans have problems with salvation because they feel they don't need God?

We have been blinded by materialism in America. Often because of an abundance of material things we do not sense our spiritual neediness. Even those who have material needs are deluded into thinking their greatest needs will be met if they have money to buy material goods. We are a nation worshipping idols of materialism and are blind to the truth.

Have Evangelicals as a group compromised our beliefs to become more palatable to the world? How about we as a church?

Yes, we have compromised our belief. Just last evening I was reading how the church has become apostate, because we, (the majority of evangelicals) are Biblically illiterate. Satan has kept us from indepth study of the "Wonderful Words of Life".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P. 13 states "Schleiermacher has pointed out that at the bottom of all religion there lies a feeling of dependence, a sense of creature helplessness."

There is little of this sense in many Christians today in America. Years ago when I was a child there were many hymns sung about heaven and a longing for heaven. Too few think of heaven unless there is some illness or tragedy. It is because we do not feel that creature helplessness mentioned in the book. All the materialism in our culture has blinded our eyes to our real need.

p.14 "Self-confidence displaces the feeling of dependence he once knew and God becomes less and less necessary to him."

Today the "self-esteem" thrust and the quest to be self-sufficient has totally gone against the scripture which states so aptly " Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God..."

(Linda S.)

Hi everyone:

I thought this chapter was very interesting. In one sense it seemed very dated. The second last paragraph of the chapter in particular. It seems like it’s becoming less important in our culture that people are even church members, let alone true Christians For instance, just look in the obituaries, I think that at one time it was a very negative thing if someone did not have a church affiliation listed, and now it’s quite common. It seems that if a politician is a Christian, it must be presented “very carefully” so as not to offend anyone. No, I do not think that evangelical Christianity is any longer “the religion of the bourgeoisie” as it is becoming less and less popular to be identified with Christ.

Now on to the questions:

Are we less dependent on God than people in third world countries?

In reality we are just as dependent on Him (He supplies all our needs – no one else does “The eyes of all look to you, and you give them their food at the proper time. You open your hand and satisfy the desires of every living thing.” Ps. 145:15-16), but we don’t act like it.

Do we compromise our beliefs to become more palatable to the world?

We really need to be careful on this one. We must guard against compromising God’s word for any reason; however, the vehicles we use to carry God’s truth can be adapted (such as music styles, church architecture, etc.) to meet the culture, taste, or need of those people to whom it is being presented.

Lots of good things to think about in these chapters.

Gayle

Are we less dependent on God than people in third world countries?

As an American living in a third world country, I would have to say that people in a third world country LEARN to depend on God quicker. We have money to buy food, whereas, they depend on God to supply rain for their crops and water, etc...

Unfortunately, though, there is a lot of witchcraft and animisim in our African context, so people here tend to go to the witchdoctors and "false gods" for those matters.

Do unsaved Americans have problems with salvation because they feel they don't need God?

Some, others are not willing to give up their "free" life and commit to a Holy God Some find it hard to believe in a God they can't see or that allows bad things to happen. There is that sense of not "needing God" unless there is a great catastrophe in the world or in one's life. When there is a feeling of confidence or comfort in one's life it is easy for one to push God aside--like Tozer points out on page 14, "Self confidence displaces the feeling of dependence he once knew...Along with the feeling of security that wealth and position bring comes an arrogant pride that shuts tightly the door of the heart to the waiting Savior."

Have Evangelicals as a group compromised our beliefs to become more palatable to the world? How about we as a church?

Once again, I think some have, but not all. Praise the Lord for those who stand firm-- as Paul said to Timothy, "Hold on to the pattern of right teaching you learned from me. And remember to live in the faith and love that you have in Christ Jesus. With the help of the Holy Spirit who lives within us, carefully guard what has been entrusted to you."

Sandra

Reading this chapter nearly made me cry. Personally because I know I am guilty of pride, of feeling self-confidence and self-reliant when in my heart I know I am to rely on God alone, and find my confidence in Him alone. God has certainly been dealing with me in this area recently as I'm finding myself without work. I have always been able to work! Now how are we supposed to put bread on the table? By praying for our daily bread??? Certainly we are not in the same condition as those in third world countries, but I'm finding that God has forced me to rely more on Him. Shame on me for needing this reminder!

Then I found it very sad as I thought that Christians as a whole are "fighting for recognition by the world and acceptance by society". And winning! We want to be attractive only insofar as non-Christians will be attracted to Christ, not to our fancy programs or music or PowerPoint slides.

God has called us to "prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life" (Philippians 2:15-16). Is my life a light, is our church a light?

I also compared many churches of today (hopefully not Grace) to the church in Laodicea: 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked...." (Rev. 3:17). I pray that God will keep on reminding both me and our church to rely totally on Him, and not on our wealth or anything of ourselves.

Heather

Thank you to everyone who responded to my questions this week! I've really appreciated your input. Now, I'll answer my own questions!

I agree with Gayle that this editorial is a bit dated. I hadn't thought about it before, but I agree with her that it's less important now than it was in the 50's for people to be involved in "the right church".

Are we less dependent on God than people in third world countries?

No, it doesn't matter where we live, we are all dependent on God. We may insulate ourselves better from the natural elements, but it's still God who brings the rain and who heals our bodies. It's God who gives us peace and gets us through each day.

Do unsaved Americans have problems with salvation because they feel they don’t need God?

I think unsaved Americans have problems with salvation because they don't see that they're sinful and in need of a Saviour.

Have Evangelicals as a group compromised our beliefs to become more palatable to the world?

I would say not at this time. The pendulum may have been swinging in that direction in the 50's but there's been movement in the last 10 years or so for Bible believing churches to break away from denominations that are compromising. The Mennonites did that in 2002, creating the Alliance of Mennonite Evangical Churches and not joining Mennonite Church USA. There's been some Presbyterian churches breaking away from Presbyterian Church USA, and the Southern Baptists have also headed in a more conservative direction. I think that being affiliated with an Evangelical or a Fundamentalist church is not necessarily an asset in the corporate or political world today.

How about we as a church?

I think we as a church are doing pretty well at not compromising our beliefs.

(Lisa)

I am late in doing chapter 4
I read everything you all had to say and I must say that I agree with all your answers.
Now, what do I think?

Question -
Are we less dependent on God than people in 3rd world countries?

I think we are as dependent on God as we allow ourselves to be. I do not think everyone in 3rd world countries believes in God or we would not need missionaries to tell them about Jesus. When things are going good many people tend to forget God, then when disaster strikes, they ask him why He did this to them. From our last book - "We have as much of God in our life as we want to have."

Question -
Do unsaved Americans have problems with salvation because they feel they don't need God ?

That question answers itself.

Question -
Have evangelicals as a group compromised our beliefs?

I think many people do compromise because they want to fit into society. It is hard to be different and stand up for what you believe, because people might say things or make fun of you, but we must decide what is more important - God or people's opinions.

The bible says it is easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven. The rich have their wealth to take care of them. The poor pray for God's help but many forget to thank Him when he does help. Most unsaved people rich or poor only ask for help, if God does not fulfill their request they find no good reason to believe in Him. They do not want to see the big picture.

As for me, I never want to forget all God has done for me. He gave me a new life 10 years ago and I have never wanted to go back to my old life. He does not answer all my prayers (anyway not yet) but He has given me a happier life than I ever had before. I always want to remember to thank Him for all He has given me. I need to depend on Him. On my own for 42 years all I did was make a mess for myself.

I am glad He is helping me to clean it up.

Linda K.

Chapter Five

Background

Crowning the Court Fool

This editorial was written on July 31, 1957

People in the entertainment industry certainly do make a good living! The capitalist in me doesn’t see anything wrong with that. As long as people are willing to spend big bucks to watch professional ball, professional ball players are going to make much more money than most of us will see in a lifetime. As long as people are willing to go to the movie theater, celebrities will also make large amounts of money for every movie they make. It’s a symptom of the decline of our society. In Rome, it was the circus. Only revival will turn our society around.

My biggest problem with celebrities is that they think that their fame entitles them to spout their opinions about world events, politics, medicine and law. Not only does the Court Fool have a crown, he’s sitting on the throne!

1 John 2:16 says: “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” I think that sums up the entertainment industry pretty well. If we are to be of the Father and not of the world, we need to watch what we do for entertainment, and whom we listen to as experts.

We need to be discerning. Discernment comes from growing and maturing in God’s Word.

Hebrews 5:12-14 says:

¹² For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. ¹³ For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. ¹⁴ But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

I'm eager to hear your thoughts. Use the "Reply All" button to send your thoughts to everyone in the group.

Have a great week!

In Christ, Lisa

As we read this chapter, I could only think "how sad, but how true!"

The only comment I could think of is how important it is to teach our children to respect those in authority and whose jobs contribute to society, and to try to downplay the importance of the sports figures and movie celebrities. They are just people after all, in need of God.

Signed,
Anonymous, R.N.

aka Heather

I for one have very little time or patience with the entertainment world of today. I can't even put in to words how much I lack interest in what is going on in the entertainment world. But my heart is grieved for two reasons...first, for the masses of the lost out there, that follow the blind leading them in to more and more pits of destruction...and how the blind are following the blind, becoming trapped and ensnared by such false garbage. How sad how the fools of this world bow down in honor and adoration to multimillionaire fools that have captured the public's worship, as they flaunt their lives before them.

And the latest fiasco...as we should be horrified to hear of these men that all now want to take credit for being the father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby. It is sickening as there is no shame in any of it. I just did a quick search on this woman...and found this in an article...

The selection of Anna Nicole Smith as a Playboy Playmate in 1992 made her a member of an exclusive sorority. Her death at 39 put her in a more grisly club _ Playmates who haven’t reached their 50th birthday.

Automobile accidents, drug overdoses, homicides, a plane crash _ all have claimed the lives of Playmates. The cause of Smith’s death is still unclear.

”It’s sad how many girls we’ve lost,” said Peter Gowland, who photographed a number of centerfolds for Playboy in the 1950s and 60s with the help of his wife.

In 1968, Gowland photographed Paige Young. In 1974, she was dead of a drug overdose. Jayne Mansfield, another Playmate he photographed, died in a car crash in 1967 at 34.

”It’s a curse to be beautiful,” Gowland said.

WHAT IS SAD IS THAT THE TRUTH IS STILL NOT UNDERSTOOD!! And there will be more fools that will either follow in her footsteps or dream of being able to.

BUT WHAT IS EVEN SADDER YET ABOVE ALL IS THAT ....Christians aren't all too smart about it either.

I am amazed how so many Christians are right in there with the entertainment world, infatuated, and think they can justify it. Believing they will not be effected by it because they KNOW the truth. If they know the truth, I don't understand why they are still intrigued by it, instead of fleeing the devil as God's word tells us. This is obviously a pet peeve with me, and I had better stop now before I start ranting and raving on and on....and besides....the tv has just been turned on in my house, as 'the entertainment' has begun!

Ugh.
I had better sign...
Anonymous!

(aka Renee')

As I was contemplating how to respond to this chapter~ReNee's reply came in the email. I say a BIG AMEN to her comments.

It is exactly how I would respond. I too am grieved by how many so called Christians are enthralled by the immoral, sexually violent and unbiblical entertainment world. I grieve especially for teens caught up in the current contemporary music that is so ungodly. We MUST take this trend seriously and open our eyes to see how it is impacting Christians where some of the same ailments in our godless society are found right in the church today.

My heart is especially grieved over the fractured families who never take the marriage covenant seriously and just follow the cultural trend regarding marriage and divorce. It sure brings tears to my eyes and forces me to my knees in prayer that God in His great mercy will open our eyes and cause our Christian leaders and pastors to address the issue of the entertainment in the world today.

(Linda L.)

It is heart breaking that the world has embraced the entertainment world as their "heros" or "role-models"-- So many others deserve much more. On the other hand, my heart does rejoice as I read the hope we find in Col. 3:23,24 "And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ."

(Sandra)

Ouch!! I know for myself I'd much rather be entertained than to think about real life. I guess real life just seems so dreary and unavoidable, I feel like I need a break from it when I can get one. However, after reading that chapter, I realized how shallow that is! I need to be more discerning when it comes to my "down" time.

(Bethany)

I have read all your responses and can't help but agree with them. I like to watch certain TV shows, but I never care who the people really are who play the characters. I wish them no bad luck in life and many of them are very talented at what they do, but as people I do not know them personally, so I do not dwell on what their life is like.

I know they all have opinions about things, but so does everyone else I know. I really do not care much what other people think. I have my own opinions too.!!!!!!!!!!

I like the last minute of most TV news shows when they tell you about someone who is doing something good in the world. I find that very interesting.

There are alot of people who work very hard in this world and I think they should all be respected for the job that they do, not for what they think. I think most people pay attention to "stars " because they do not want to focus on their own life and fix what is wrong. Or they focus on people they work with for the same reason.

It makes most people feel better about themselves if they focus on the problems of others, instead of feeling bad that others are having problems. We live in a sad world of sad people who need to find some way to feel important about themselves.

Then there are those of us who are Christians and we put on focus on growing and learning about God's word and that makes all the difference.

So I get up each day and thank God that I have a job and I ask him to help me to do my best and help me around my house to get done what I need to do. I live in my own little world and really do not pay to much attention to what happens outside of it.

And I try to enjoy each day and laugh as much as I can, because I do believe God wants us to be happy.

I look for ways to help people and I try to do things for others, but I never really succeed at getting to everyone or everything I want to. So when would I have time to care what someone who is deemed important by society thinks.

I hope to do this weeks chapter on time for a change. God bless you all and enjoy your week.

I do hope you are thinking of what kind of green food to make and what true or false story you are going to tell. I better go check my recipes.

(Linda K.)

Chapter Six

Background

Let No One Become Necessary to You

This editorial was published August 7, 1957

We need to learn from each other. We also need to be available to teach each other. Discipleship is something that’s hard for churches to do in a formal way, but it’s important for more mature Christians to do and for less mature Christians to seek.

Hebrews 10:24-25
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

I know that Tozier is talking about being sure to end the Discipleship relationship (although the friendship should continue) when it’s proper to do so, but I think that we as Christians aren’t real good at getting the Discipleship relationship going.

How can we be better at reaching out to new Christians, making sure they stay on the right path?

How can we be better at reaching out to those in our midst who may be going through hard times?

What can we do as women in the church to make sure our girls grow up loving the Lord and avoiding the traps of this world?

I don’t have the answers to these questions, but I know the answer is NOT: “That’s the Pastor’s job.”

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

In Christ, Lisa.

Hi Ladies. When I was first saved as a teen, God very kindly put someone in my life each year to help me grow as a Christian. Since I didn't have a Christian home and had to continue going to my parents' church, this was God's gift to me. Perhaps knowing about my dependent nature, He caused each of these people to move away, or move out of my life after a year or so, and brought in someone new.

But what a gift they were to me! Going into their homes helped me to see what a Christian home should be like, and helped me envision the kind of home I wanted--------one where Christ was the head, where we could and would talk about Him.

" and you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates."
Deuteronomy 6:7-9.

I'm so thankful for a godly husband and the Christian home we established back in 1968.

And I'm thankful for Christian friends who have encouraged me along the way since that time.

Now I realize that that is not what this chapter is saying, in fact the very opposite. God graciously gives us other Christians to fellowship with, but does not want them to be the bread and butter of our spiritual life. The only one necessary to us is and must be God Himself. Our first and foremost time each day should be with Him.

Our time together as a group of church women should be a time of sharing what God is doing in our lives "without leaning on men" (p. 23). I see that to mean that we can enjoy each other and our time together, but this is not to be our only spiritual input. It's great to meet and share our thoughts, but we need to depend on God alone.

Heather

Discipleship is a VERY important part of the Great Commission, yet there seems to be a lack thereof. But when it does take place..

Let No One Become Necessary to You! (the title of this chapter) is wise counsel!! So many people today treat their pastor or another leader, as if He is a god--an infallible person, but over and over, man has proved that to be dangerous. Many have fallen into sin and devastated the body of Christ. Others have split up the church and hurt the testimony of God in the community it is trying to shine with His love. It is very sad.The Bible tells us we are all unrighteous (Rom 3:10,23-24). Like Tozer pointed out, it is good and important to have godly role-models to help us, but not to the point that we fully rely on them.

He states on pg 21 "The master-disciple relationship is normal and wholesome up to a given point; after that it becomes harmful both to the master and to the disciple."

And on pg 22 "Every man has some contributions to make to your life if you know how to receive it...but never attach yourself to any man as a parasite...Christ alone is necessary" When we attach ourselves to man, we rob God from our total dependence on Him and glorifying Him. I have had many people in my life in which I admire and look up to, and I am thankful for each of them. I pray that I can glorify Christ with my life and encourage others as well so that they may be able to grow in Him and teach others to do the same.
Sandra

I really liked this chapter. So many good things he reminded us of.

I think what hit me the hardest was "Let anyone become spiritually indispensable to us and we have deserted the Rock to build on shifting sand." That should be both a warning to us as both the learner and the teacher. I am not sure which needs to be reminded of that more....the young learner or the wise mentor? Both in different ways.

A good reminder as a younger person in the Lord we need to be humble to learn. To an older person to be patiently willing to teach the younger. And most of us will fall into BOTH catergories! There will always be someone younger in the Lord than us that we are then to be a mentor too, and there will always be someone older than us in the Lord that we need to be willing to learn from. He gave us some great bible examples, didn't he?

I also liked the bottom of pg. 21, "the teacher makes himself unnecessary and passes on and the disciple stands upright and begins to walk with no one to lean on." I remember a thousand years ago, when I worked full time and managed an Adv. Dept. for a retail company. (and I know this is a secular example, but it is still relevant) It was good to have confidence in the staff that worked under me, when I knew that I could leave for an extended time, and everything continue to work as if I was still there, for the people knew how to pick up and take it from there, in my absence. Tozer points out that a good teacher has done well when his student no longer needs him.

It was a good reminder, for me that no matter how godly a mentor God may bless us with, we must remember that we should never become more dependent on them than on Christ. Even the most godly christians are still sinners, weak and apt to fail both God and us. May God give us wisdom to remember this, that He may not have to bring extreme measures to bring this truth home to us.

Lisa did a great job with those questions - again! Thanks for the reminder that we need to be available to each other. It is so important. And this is so hard for us individual christians to get because we are so often over booked with our schedules. I agree whole heartedly with Lisa, we Christians just aren't good at getting the Discipleship relationship going. How often we are too busy, or the bottom line is....we ask ourselves (honestly) what will I get out of this relationship...FOR MYSELF! Instead of being willing to be a servant of Christ by ministering to them.

A good question to ponder...how can we reach out to Christians (new and not so new?) Some obvious ways...
Making ourselves available to them, practically...just do it. (drop a note, pray with them, follow up with them, etc.)
Ask them questions, show an interest in their lives.
Be a listener, don't buy the lie that you have to have a solution, sometimes listening is all you can do, and that is all they really need at the moment.
Share about yourself, be transparent and don't be afraid to show your weaknesses.

The question of how do we make sure girls grow up loving the Lord and avoiding the traps of the world...here is even a harder question...(just kidding - sort of)

how do us women make sure our sons grow up loving the Lord?? - - you knew I would ask that, didn't you?

Renee'

Let No One Become Necessary to You - I guess that means I shouldn't always be looking for someone, anyone, to latch onto.

Hebrews 10:24-25

And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. Always a good reminder when I start to get fed up with church politics or particular points of view.

I know that Tozier is talking about being sure to end the Discipleship relationship (although the friendship should continue) when it's proper to do so, but I think that we as Christians aren't real good at getting the Discipleship relationship going. Amen! Somehow, I kind of wish I were on both ends of it - I could use someone to keep me in line :-), but I also think I've had enough experience in so many areas that I could share with some less experienced women (gee, that makes me sound soooo old!!!).

How can we be better at reaching out to new Christians, making sure they stay on the right path? Invite them over for coffee or tea, be nosy with questions.

How can we be better at reaching out to those in our midst who may be going through hard times? Call, call, call, call, call, e-mail, e-mail, e-mail, e-mail, e-mail, invite, invite, invite, invite, invite. Don't give up if they say no or don't answer all the time. Hard times are hard!

What can we do as women in the church to make sure our girls grow up loving the Lord and avoiding the traps of this world? Trying to figure that one out!! I've got 2 who are getting older by the minute.

I don't have the answers to these questions, but I know the answer is NOT: "That's the Pastor's job." or the job of his family - they're not perfect!!!!!!!!

Bethany

There were several sentences in this chapter that spoke to my heart and with which I heartily agree.

p.22 " As the bee soars for nectar ....so you must search for spiritual nectar where it is most likely to be found, which is among those Christians who are the most consecrated, the most prayerful and the most experienced."

Yet the warning in the next chapter is equally helpful. "Adopt no man as a guru." And the reason is at the end of the paragraph. "The sweetest saint can be mistaken." This must always remain as a caution.

"Christ alone is necessary"

"Our need of Him is real and vital and will outlast time and go on into eternity."p.23

"Let anyone become spiritually indispensable to us and we have deserted the Rock to build on shifting sand."p.23

Always good also to remember "Our God is a Jealous God" Exodus 20:5

These are all good challenges to keep in mind on our earthly journey. God will provide all our needs always.

If our need is for a person to come along side of us for a time...HE will provide, however we should never become too attached. I remember in a book I read Corrie ten Boom stated she learned NOT to hold onto anything earthly too tightly, because it hurts so much when the Heavenly Father has to pry our hand open to take it from us.

Linda S.

Hi everyone:

Sorry, somehow I must have lost the original e-mail from Lisa on this chapter, so here are some thoughts on Ch. 6.

Reading this chapter reminded me of how much we miss when we rely too much or unnecessarily on other people. (I certainly understand that discipleship is very important, and fellowship is also very important for our growth.) When we rely too much on others we miss precious fellowship with the Lord. I can think back to a couple of difficult experiences that I had to face alone. There were Christians praying for me and encouraging me from a distance, but they were my personal trials to bear. These times were times when I have experienced sweeter fellowship with the Lord than any other times. I would have loved to have someone take on some of the burden, and I would have loved to not be alone in the difficulty, but I would have missed out on so much. It was also through those times that I was given deep assurance that my faith was my own and not a byproduct of someone else's faith.

When Christians are at an appropriate maturity level, they will benefit from standing alone (actually leaning directly on Jesus). At the same time, we are instructed to "bear one another's burdens". So, there needs to be balance and sensitivity to the Holy Spirit's leading.

Here are a couple appropriate lines from a hymn:

What a fellowship, what a joy divine,
Leaning on the everlasting arms;
What a blessedness, what a peace is mine,
Leaning on the everlasting arms.

Gayle

I really like this chapter. The Lord is so worthy of our full love and devotion but we often get distracted. I love the Psalm that says "Taste and see the goodness of the Lord". When we taste His goodness it keeps us coming back for more. I have many Christian friends whom I love dearly but I would rather blindly trust in God. I am not always a good discerner of people so if I trust God I don't need to worry about my own near sightedness.
Blessings
Sue

I really did alot of thinking as I read this Chapter.
I guess God brings people into your life to help you to learn and grow, and when there is no more they can teach you, he takes them away so you can meet the next person you need to grow even more.

I don't think he always takes them out of your life permanently, he just changes the role that they play in your life.

I look back on so many people in my life who have helped me in one way or another.

Some are gone from this world, some have moved out of town, some I have lost touch with, but none of them have ever been forgotten.

These people have helped me become the person I am, there is a little of all of them in me.

But God is the only person who never leaves you and he can always teach you more.

So I agree with Linda who said about Corrie Ten Boom, that we should not hold on to tightly because it then hurts to much to lose it.

It is hard to lose a relationship that you are used to, but when God closes a door, he then opens a window.

So I thank God for this chapter and what I find so amazing is that even though this book is dated, christians are still facing the same problems today that they did in the 50's and probably at all other periods of time also.

May God bless all of you this week.

Linda K.

Chapters Seven and Eight

Background